Talk:Borderline personality disorder

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Borderline personality disorder was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 4, 2006	Good article nominee	Listed
March 9, 2006	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
September 24, 2007	Good article reassessment	Kept
July 5, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Borderline personality disorder.

PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles)
The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine.
Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

Section sizes

Section size for Borderline personality disorder (60 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	19,667	19,667
Signs and symptoms	3,558	30,600
Mood and affect	7,882	7,882
Interpersonal relationships	7,553	7,553
Behavior	1,136	1,136
Self-harm and suicide	3,224	3,224
Sense of self and self-concept	1,159	1,159
Dissociation and cognitive challenges	1,521	1,521
Psychotic symptoms	3,125	3,125
Disability and employment	1,442	1,442
Causes	1,482	23,200
Genetics and heritability	5,250	5,250
Psychosocial factors	28	8,739
Adverse childhood experiences	4,018	4,018
Invalidating environment	2,390	2,390
Clinical and cultural perspectives	2,303	2,303
Brain and neurobiologic factors	1,346	4,967
Neurological patterns	3,621	3,621
Mediating and moderating factors	164	2,762
Executive function and social rejection sensitivity	1,734	1,734
Family environment	864	864
Diagnosis	3,171	40,569
DSM-5 diagnostic criteria	1,638	1,638
International Classification of Disease (ICD) diagnostic criteria	73	4,392
ICD-11 diagnostic criteria	2,873	2,873
ICD-10 diagnostic criteria	1,446	1,446
Millon's subtypes	1,809	1,809
Misdiagnosis	2,901	2,901
Adolescence and prodrome	10,113	10,113
Differential diagnosis and comorbidity	2,221	16,545
Comorbid Axis I disorders	5,194	5,194
Mood disorders	5,587	5,587
Premenstrual dysphoric disorder	1,350	1,350
Comorbid Axis II disorders	2,193	2,193
Management	1,291	23,316
Psychotherapy	9,451	9,451
Medications	7,300	7,300
Health care services	5,274	5,274
Prognosis	5,689	5,689
Epidemiology	4,012	4,012
History	6,730	8,572
Etymology	1,842	1,842
Controversies	19	21,178
Credibility and validity of testimony	1,384	2,334
Dissociation	950	950
Gender	3,260	3,260
Manipulative behavior	2,966	2,966
Stigma	1,912	8,582
Physical violence	1,958	1,958
Mental health care providers	4,712	4,712
Terminology	4,017	4,017
Society and culture	25	12,288
Literature	1,888	1,888
Film	5,811	5,811
Television	2,780	2,780
Awareness	1,784	1,784
See also	133	133
Citations	29	29
General bibliography	2,843	2,843
External links	1,591	1,591
Total	193,687	193,687

Article is too big

At almost 10,000 words this article should definitely be trimmed, per WP:TOOBIG. I suggest we create articles for some sections, such as Causes of borderline personality disorder (redirect to the "Causes" section), diagnosis, signs and symptoms; like we already do for management and misdiagnosis. The Blue Rider 16:00, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I’ve done copyediting to most of the current content. Snipping out excess or twice-repeated content. However, for the most part it was just fact checking, updating some facts that play an important role, and letting it all flow nicely. I’m sitting with the following facts after my huge copyedit:

Causes should be grouped into three: genetic, neurobiologic, psychosocial. And then we expand if so on the new research into that.
In diagnosis, we put the criteria into prose, possibly removing the subtypes or prosing the subtypes by Millon as I haven’t seen their substantiveness in all the medical literature I’ve read there isn’t much mention of them?
Adolescence should move more forward or to a separate section termed prodrome where like schizophrenia there may be a prodrome or adolescence behaviour pre-disease pattern prior to developing the disease, as this is so “pervasive” unlike a mood disorder there is a prodrome of sorts I’ve picked up on although that is original research.
The differential diagnosis section is giving me the “ick”. It’s very overwhelming as summarised BPD can occur comorbid with a lot of other conditions, and not so typically talked about vice versa, if you get what I mean. And it speaks of the statistics in the old terms of Axis I and II instead of Sections I and II and I think we should speak of them in comorbid other personality d/o and comorbid other mental d/o (like mood d/o, trauma d/o etc.)
Management I need to tackle the main article, then we can filter what needs to be there knit pick onto the BPD article, maybe by {transclusion}? -- I’ve never done that before so you’re suggestions would be appreciated.
Epi I touched a little with the latest stats
Prognosis and History and Controversies I haven’t touched at all!!

What do you think? waddie96 ★ (talk) 15:33, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with all the points, I will start by putting the criteria into prose. The Blue Rider

17:55, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, after you put it into prose, it really misrepresents the diagnostic criteria as outlined in the DSM V TR. I don't think diagnostic criteria is the time for prose, or any sort of personal editing or paraphrasing. It should be presented the same way it is in the scientific, medical, text. I see criteria such as self harm and fear of abandonment under the ICD section, but why is none of it listed in the DSM V section? Why is that part all loosely summarized and missing major diagnostic components of the disorder? 2600:8801:9A01:7070:0:0:0:E5D6 (talk) 07:40, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@The Blue Rider I don't think there's anything wrong with it being long it provides the most information 45.19.219.33 (talk) 19:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good day, and welcome to Wikipedia. See Wikipedia:Welcome and Wikipedia:Article size. waddie96 ★ (talk) 20:29, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why does Edvard Munch get to have this disorder posthumously awarded to him?

Isn't it a basic principle in psychiatry that you have to meet someone in person before you can tell what mental illnesses he has? But some Danish dude writes an article and now it's a "sourced fact". Well good on you, Danish dude, I hope no one writes an article calling you a manic depressive, for example, because that would obviously become a fact. 212.3.197.113 (talk) 21:55, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed - this is a tiresome hobby of medics, which journals are too ready to publish, often in their Xmas issues. Johnbod (talk) 01:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The role of Wikipedia is as an encyclopedia summarizing what reliable sources have said. These are reliable sources. Our job as an enclyopedia is not to do original research and determine whether Munch had BPD.

Since it is reliably sourced, it should stay in the article.

TypistMonkey (talk) 17:34, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The DSM V TR does not use the term "manipulative"

Here's links to various articles with the exact language used for the diagnostic criteria for BPD in the DSM V TR:

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/913575-overview?form=fpf

https://www.medcentral.com/behavioral-mental/borderline-personality-disorder/dsm-criteria-comorbidities-and-treatments

https://bpdfoundation.org.au/diagnostic-criteria.php

I also have a physical copy of the DSM V TR and can include pictures or scans. The whole manipulative and lying section is inaccurate and very biased. 2600:8801:9A01:7070:0:0:0:E5D6 (talk) 07:26, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will have to look more into this and talk to some other editors who are more active in this page but thank you for pointing this out. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 21:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image

The image used in this article is weird. It says that it's "Idealization" by Edvard Munch, but when I click on the image it says that it's "The Brooch. Eva Mudocci". Is the image right for the article, considering that it's a portrait of someone else who does not have BPD and not something else? Should the image be changed to something else? Spinixster (trout me!) 08:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The image represents Edvard Munch's idealisation towards Evangeline Muddock. Edvard Munch allegedly had BPD and therefore its symptoms were allegedly depicted through his art. Morslyte (talk) 09:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source saying that it's an idealization? It could just simply be a stylized portrait. Plus, I don't think it's a good image to represent BPD as a whole, since, again, just a portrait of someone. Spinixster (trout me!) 10:24, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]